Comments on: Six areas atheists and Christians should agree

By: Nathan

Nathan — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:49:36 +0000

Stephen,

I guess I'm trying to break the connection between belief in God and what we, as humans, understand to be moral. I think morality is impossible without God. Because God provides the ultimate moral framework.

I would say, in answer to your question, that while they aren't personally aware of the moral authority of God he continues to have an impact on their morality.

They have no consistent moral compass – but they are capable of doing good to others out of a sense of altruism. That is probably the part of the Christian argument that I think falls down. The idea that atheists are one step away from pulling out a gun and shooting us…

By: Stephen

Stephen — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:44:39 +0000

I'd have a question about point 5. It was something I was trying to get to with physicistDave on the last "list" posting. What can you mean by morality of you deny a transcendent God. I'll agree that you can be a very nice person and an atheist, but atheism still seems inconsistent to me if it claims that there are moral absolutes (as objectivists do). Christians claim that God is that absolute. What do atheists have as transcendent moral authority? Sure they act nice, but are they adhering to morals in doing it, or simply being limited in their refutation of theistic morality?

By: Nathan

Nathan — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:07:21 +0000

I suspect you mean point 5.

I don't know why being relativistic necessarily rules out being "moral"…

I'd prefer atheists who have a moral framework to atheists who don't. Even if their philosophical basis is bizarre.

I can also, as a Christian, see this relativistic tendency as an outworking of the God given internal "common grace" morality which seems to prevent humanity spiraling into the moral abyss.

By: Nathan

Nathan — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:04:07 +0000

Attack ads aren't nice. But I think we need to protect the right of people to make attack ads if they feel so inclined. There are ideas that are worthy of scorn and worth being attacked. I'd make an attack ad about Scientology if I could, and if there was any chance of it becoming a mainstream idea.

Most of the "controversial" atheist ads are just billboards that say "there's probably no God", or "You can be good without God"… these aren't all that offensive – I think Christians should be much more offended about ads inspiring immorality than ads encouraging people to be moral for wrong reasons…

I don't know. I think freedom of speech is something we, as Christians, need to be consistent on while we're in the cultural ascendancy so that when we're not we are still free to speak freely.

By: Matt Stone

Matt Stone — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:48:41 +0000

I disagree wih point 4. Most Atheists Ive met are decisedly relativistic when it comes to ethics.

By: Amy

Amy — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:37:47 +0000

Great list.

By: Leah

Leah — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:27:42 +0000

The only place I think I'd disagree – or rather, include a clause – is with #2. I don't mind atheists or other religions advertising and stuff, as long as they're not trying to attack another group. Generally (and I understand this is a generalisation and there will be exceptions) Christian advertising mainly promotes Jesus rather than actively attacking Allah or the idea of not having a God. Some atheist advertising actively attacks the idea of a God.

I guess there is a significant difference between the internet and the rest of the world. A person can post anything they want on the internet. I'm thinking more about off-internet advertising and propaganda.