Comments on: Watching Watchmen

By: Amy

Amy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 02:01:39 +0000

socialism |ˈsō sh əˌlizəm|
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

• policy or practice based on this theory.
• (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.

The term “socialism” has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state communism, and social democracy; however, it necessarily implies an opposition to the untrammeled workings of the economic market.The socialist parties that have arisen in most European countries from the late 19th century have generally tended toward social democracy.

communism |ˈkämyəˌnizəm| (often Communism)
noun
a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs. See also Marxism .
The most familiar form of communism is that established by the Bolsheviks after the Russian Revolution of 1917, and it has generally been understood in terms of the system practiced by the former USSR and its allies in eastern Europe, in China since 1949, and in some developing countries such as Cuba, Vietnam, and North Korea. Communism embraced a revolutionary ideology in which the state would wither away after the overthrow of the capitalist system. In practice, however, the state grew to control all aspects of communist society. Communism in eastern Europe collapsed in the late 1980s and early 1990s against a background of failure to meet people’s economic expectations, a shift to more democracy in political life, and increasing nationalism such as that which led to the breakup of the USSR.

Hmmm. I really don’t feel like reading Marx right now. This may have to be saved for a later date.

By: Tim

Tim — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:52:56 +0000

I disagree that supporting communism excludes Christianity. I do know that indeed the Russian/USSR model did in the end. But I don’t think the concept itself does. Certainly churches existing separately with their own assets etc is. But not the concept of personal religious belief.

By: Nathan

Nathan — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:29:36 +0000

And that’s probably for the best.

By: Amy

Amy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:12:13 +0000

Except school uniforms. They are designed specifically to make the wearer look as much like a sack as possible.

By: Nathan

Nathan — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:08:35 +0000

No, I wasn’t arguing that it made it right — just that it was nothing outside the norm. But I don’t think costumes are limited to leather suits — it can be any uniform.

I don’t think it was glorified — if it’s left blurry as unstated satire it’s probably borderline — but the point was specifically made (ie in the script) that this character had invented himself as a satire. It wasn’t left up to the imagination — and you were meant to feel uncomfortable with his conduct.

By: Amy

Amy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:52:50 +0000

When does ‘satirising/representing’ these things become just glorification? I would make a similar point about The Passion — despite arguments that it was trying to be realistic in its depiction of the violence, it really was just violence for the sake of violence as far as I could see.

When have women in costume not been sexualised?
True, but it would be nice to have characters not reduced to a set of breasts in a leather suit, fighting in high heels.

And just because it is how it has always been done, doesn’t make it right.

By: Nathan

Nathan — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:47:19 +0000

It was hard not to notice. It wasn’t celebrated though — it was included in the guise of social commentary.

There’s a character called “The Comedian” whose extroverted violence is a “satire” on human nature. There’s a couple of nasty scenes involving him that are almost inexcusable — but again, they’re a portrait of misogynism not a celebration.

When have women in costume not been sexualised?

By: Amy

Amy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:44:12 +0000

You can be socialist and Christian but communism sort of bans religion Tim. That was one of the main points. Didn’t I teach you better :)

By: Nathan

Nathan — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:43:24 +0000

And obviously we don’t want the kids trying it at home.

By: Amy

Amy — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:43:07 +0000

I’ve read quite a few blogs/opinion pieces talking about this movie being particularly mysogenistic [sic] — in terms of the violence against women, both sexual and non-sexual, and also the sexualisation of the women in costumes etc. I am certainly not going to see this movie but would be interested if this was something you noticed.

By: Nathan

Nathan — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:40:58 +0000

It just doesn’t seem physically possible.

By: Tim

Tim — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:29:25 +0000

I loved that ‘character separates in two…’ gets a separate mention. That must have really stuck with them.
Not for me I think. I’ll just read the wikis etc and think of the themes myself. Unless the martial arts fighting was particularly noteworthy.

Well you can hardly be a socialist/communist and be a Christian. :)