Category: Christianity

Why I’m not Anglican (or Catholic)

It’s mostly the clothes. To be honest.

I don’t want to look like a Rubik’s cube.

Or a motherboard.

From Bad Vestments.

YouTube Tuesday: The Rock’n’Roll bonanza

Jacob Aranza was right.

Rock and Roll is for Klingons (who Jesus hates).

Even the Catholics are onto you back masking rock stars – I’ve always wondered why “another one bites the dust” made me want to start smoking marijuana:

Crystal ball gazing is going to get you into trouble…

But, Aranza was wrong. There is no such thing as “Christian rock”… this comes in eight parts (I’ve started this at the relevant bit, the background is that this guy is a prophet of true Christianity).


I think this guy also thinks coffee and failing businesses are Satan’s work.


The solution is to be less enthusiastic in our singing.

Understanding Christianese (from the atheist perspective)

This is simultaneously helpful and unhelpful. Given that we believe “I’ll pray for you” actually is a method for caring for people that particular critique is mostly unfounded (though “I’ll pray for you” with no offer of physical help does smack of hypocrisy).

What do you reckon? And are there other phrases we should reconsider?

Thou Shalt Not Kiss (until you are married)

I think that’s the 11th commandment. Don’t watch this on YouTube – the comment thread has been hijacked… although watching it here will give you a good understanding why that’s the case. It’s kind of creepy and emotionally manipulative at the same time…

This guy has it all sorted. (via Jesus Needs New PR – a pretty awesome blog)

Beating the “hell” out of your opponents

Every altar call should come in the squared circle…

Maybe the Pressies should start a federation called the WCF.

The wrestling for Jesus man says they save 10% of their crowd per event. Those are the people sprinkled with the blood and sweat of the wrestlers (but never immersed).

Just ask yourself – who would Jesus fight?

143 things you need to know about in order to teach the Bible

According to Acts 29, a minister should, amongst other qualities, be able to comprehend, and communicate effectively on these 119 issues.

1. Adoption
2. Ammillenialism
3. Angels
4. Apostle
5. Aseity
6. Baptism in the Holy Spirit
7. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
8. Body of Christ
9. Born Again
10. Canonicity
11. Common grace
12. Communicable and Incommunicable Attributes
13. Complementarian
14. Conversion
15. Cosmological Argument
16. Covenant
17. Covenant of Grace
18. Covenant of works
19. Covenant community
20. Credo Baptism
21. Deacon
22. Death
23. Decree of God
24. Definite Atonement
25. Demons
26. Dichotomy
27. Disciple
28. Doctrines of Grace
29. Ecclesiology
30. Effectual Calling
31. Egalitarian
32. Eisogesis
33. Ekklesia
34. Elder
35. Election
36. Eschatology
37. Excommunication
38. Exegesis
39. Exorcisms
40. Expiation
41. External Calling
42. Faith
43. Father
44. Final Judgment
45. Foreknowledge of God
46. Forensic Justification
47. Free will
48. General Revelation
49. Glorification
50. Heaven
51. Hell
52. Hematology
53. Hermeneutics
54. Holy Spirit
55. Humiliation of Christ
56. Hypostatic Union
57. Imago Dei
58. Imminent Return
59. Impeccability
60. Imputation of Sin
61. Incarnation
62. Incomprehensibility Of God
63. Inerrancy
64. Infallibility
65. Infinite
66. Intercession
67. Invisible Church
68. Keys of the Kingdom
69. Liberty
70. Limited Free will
71. Lord’s Supper
72. Lordship Salvation
73. Mediator
74. Millennium
75. Miracles
76. New heavens and new earth
77. Officer in the church
78. Omniscience
79. Ontological Argument
80. Original Sin
81. OT and NT Priest
82. Overseer
83. Paedo Baptism
84. Parousia
85. Particular Redemption
86. Penal Substitution
87. Pneumatology
88. Postmillenialism
89. Predestination
90. Premillenialism
91. Propitiation
92. Providence
93. Rapture
94. Reconciliation
95. Redemption
96. Regeneration
97. Regulatory principle
98. Religious Affections
99. Repentance
100. Reprobation
101. Resurrection
102. Sanctification
103. Satan
104. Second Coming
105. Son of God
106. Soteriology
107. Sovereignty
108. Special Revelation
109. Spiritual Body
110. T.U.L.I.P.
111. Teleological Argument
112. The Fall of Mankind
113. Theology proper
114. Total inability
115. Transcendence
116. Tribulation
117. Trinity
118. Virgin Birth
119. Worship

And be able to apply a scriptural argument on the following 24 issues:

1. Annihilationism
2. Antinomianism
3. Arianism
4. Arminianism
5. Consubstantiation
6. Deism
7. Dictation Theory
8. Dispensationalism
9. Doceticism
10. Dualism
11. Evolution
12. Fatalism
13. Feminism
14. Limbo
15. Monism
16. Pantheism
17. Pelagianism
18. Perfectionism
19. Purgatory
20. Soul Sleep
21. The Mass (Catholic)
22. Theistic Evolution
23. Transubstantiation
24. Universalism

This is why I think the Westminster Confession is a good thing. Somebody has done the hard work (mostly) for us.

So how do you score on those 143 items? How would Jesus score (based on his teaching in his time)?

Stupidity, and rumours of stupidity

I’m calling for a retranslation of Matthew 24:6. We’re living in strange times. With strange people. Here are some media stories about public Christianity that have grabbed my attention in the last few weeks.

A UK judge ruled that a Christian sex therapist could not refuse his services to a gay couple.

‘Law for the protection of a position held purely on religious grounds cannot therefore be justified. It is irrational, as preferring the subjective over the objective. But it is also divisive, capricious and arbitrary.’

‘We do not live in a society where all the people share uniform religious beliefs.

‘The precepts of any one religion – any belief system – cannot, by force of their religious origins, sound any louder in the general law than the precepts of any other.

‘If they did, those out in the cold would be less than citizens, and our constitution would be on the way to a theocracy, which is of necessity autocratic.’

‘The law of a theocracy is dictated without option to the people, not made by their judges and governments.

‘The individual conscience is free to accept such dictated law, but the State, if its people are to be free, has the burdensome duty of thinking for itself.”

I didn’t know the English had a consitutional right to sex therapy. Forcing people to act against their conscience in the interest of “freedom” seems pretty odd to me.

But England is pretty messed up, just days later a Christian street preacher was arrested for privately telling (according to the reports) an off duty (gay atheist) police liaison officer that he believed homosexuality was a sin.

Whether or not homosexuality is a sin (I believe it is) is not the point here – whether or not we can voice opinions over things we disagree with is a much more important issue. I’m not sure why an atheist (which the complainant claims to be) would be offended that a God they don’t believe in thinks their conduct is sinful – especially when he defines every person as sinful, and every sin as essentially genetic (an inherited trait).

Things aren’t much better in the US – where a judge just ruled that the cross is a symbol for everybody – not just Christians. Much to the chagrin of atheists and Americans of other religions… here’s a section of the transcript.

MR. ELIASBERG: It doesn’t say that, but a cross is the predominant symbol of Christianity and it signifies that Jesus is the son of God and died to redeem mankind for our sins, and I believe that’s why the Jewish war veterans —

JUSTICE SCALIA: It’s erected as a war memorial. I assume it is erected in honor of all of the war dead. It’s the — the cross is the — is the most common symbol of — of — of the resting place of the dead, and it doesn’t seem to me — what would you have them erect? A cross — some conglomerate of a cross, a Star of David, and you know, a Moslem half moon and star?

MR. ELIASBERG: Well, Justice Scalia, if I may go to your first point. The cross is the most common symbol of the resting place of Christians. I have been in Jewish cemeteries. There is never a cross on a tombstone of a Jew.

(Laughter.)

MR. ELIASBERG: So it is the most common symbol to honor Christians.

JUSTICE SCALIA: I don’t think you can leap from that to the conclusion that the only war dead that that cross honors are the Christian war dead. I think that’s an outrageous conclusion.

MR. ELIASBERG: Well, my — the point of my — point here is to say that there is a reason the Jewish war veterans came in and said we don’t feel honored by this cross. This cross can’t honor us because it is a religious symbol of another religion.

Closer to home, a Geelong church had an Easter publicity stunt closed by police because it was offensive. They were trying to re-enact the crucifixion in a public space. Who thought that would be a good idea? Seriously. I know the crucifixion is important – but in terms of scarring (and scaring) little children in a public place the only way you could create more shock would be to crucify the Easter Bunny and tell them they aren’t getting any eggs.

I know the message of the cross is offensive – that doesn’t mean we have to go out of our way to offend people with it. Like this:

The minister of the church responsible, Sarah Keneally, said:

“When the police stopped it I looked behind me and there were about eight children … watching it and none of them looked distressed,” she said.

“I think it was pretty sad that a Christian group couldn’t express what Easter was truly about for one hour – it wasn’t like we were trying to take over the city or tell everyone they were going to hell.”

She said the group did not get a chance to talk with police before the display was shut down.

“They didn’t talk to us first, they just came and yanked the cord out of our amp and said we had to stop,” she said.

“We got through 40 minutes of Jesus hanging on the cross with two women mourning and instrumental music. I was a bit disappointed we weren’t allowed to have a one-hour demonstration.’

The Bible tells us to go and tell the world about Jesus.

“It doesn’t say to stay in a church and hope that everyone will turn up there because they won’t.”

Ms Kenneally said if the church conducts the same re-enactment next year it would consider cutting out the fake blood element.

“We would probably modify that a bit,” she said.

“We don’t want to, but if that’s what the public are saying, we would if we needed to.”

There’s a big difference between telling the world about Jesus and shoving a gory picture of his crucifixion in their faces.

How to structure your mega church service

This doesn’t really look like any church I’ve ever been to. But then again, none of North Point’s videos look like they come from any church I’ve ever been to.

“Sunday’s Coming” Movie Trailer from North Point Media on Vimeo.

Despite the lack of familiarity this still made me laugh. I think Gary gets the honours for finding this one…

There’s a sequel…

You’ll be thrilled to learn that Jacob Aranza wrote a follow up to his hit tome on Backwards Masking – Backwards Masking Unmasked – he called the sequel More Rock Country And Backward Masking Unmasked it sounds like good blogging fodder, so I’ve ordered it. You’ll know when it arrives.

Stay tuned for my next installment.

Backwards Masking Unmasked: Part 3: Rock (is) history

Well firstly, Ben drew me this.

And found Jacob Aranza’s Twitter account

And now…

Jacob Aranza’s Rock History

If I were to come into your home and tell you to worship Satan I wonder what your response would be. I presented this question to a crowd of young people I was to speak to about rock and roll. Their response was one of complete shock. It sounded as removed from rock and roll as the subject of sex might seem. Yet sex is just as related as Satan is to rock and roll.

This passage doesn’t quite equate sex with satanism. But it gets pretty close.

In 1954 a Cleveland Disc Jockey by the name of Alan Freed was searching for a name to describe a new music fad pioneered by men such as Gene Vincent, Chuck Berry, and Elvis Presley. Freed finally found a name he borrowed from the ghetto term describing premarital sex. The name was rock and roll.

I’m just glad we have guys like Jacob who can equip us with the facts – so was one seventeen year old girl, who told her teacher after one of Aranza’s rallies:

“Many people have come and given us their opinion on rock, but finally we have heard the facts.”

Rock is bad. M’kay. The Beatles claimed to be bigger than Jesus (probably statistically true if you consider Beatles album sales to the crowds Jesus preached to – though not if you consider total converts). Just when we thought we were safe – post Beatlemania – we got Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix. Who wanted to do drugs, drugs and more drugs. Drugs are bad. M’kay.

The worst, according to Jacob Aranza, was not the “son of a Mormon preacher” Alice Cooper, but KISS (Kids in Satans Service).

Rock and roll magazines call them fire breathing demons from rock and roll. Former member Peter Criss declares “I find myself evil”… Gene Simmons says “I’ve always been interested in what human flesh tasted like, and I have always wanted to be a cannibal.”

“Marvel Comics produced a special edition dedicated to KISS. Blood samples were taken from the group and smeared on the [printing] plates so they could say literally that the comic was printed in the blood of the band. Marvel editor Steve Gerber aimed the magazine directly at eight- to nine- year olds”

But don’t despair.. just when you thought it couldn’t get worse, it did…

Still the road to rock would be paved with many other groups to come. Everyone waited. What next? I was in Europe in 1978 and saw the new beginning. I was speaking in an open market place in England when, in the middle of my message, a teenager came and stood across from me. I tried not to stare. But it was difficult. His hair appeared like a long crew cut. It stuck straight up in the air, uneven and jagged in many places. I had never seen anyone with safety pins stuck in their face before, or leopard skin pants on. Maybe it was the pink, red, orange, blue and blonde hair that caught my attention.

After I finished speaking he walked over to me and said, “hey, what’s wrong with you man?” I couldn’t believe it… He was asking what was wrong with me?

This was my first encounter with what was to come, namely, punk rock. When I found out what he represented I laughed to myself and said “The kids in America will never go for this!” But they did.


The Religion of Rock and Roll

Veteran rocker Leon Russell said in an interview “I’d like to say the religion of Christianity has done more harm than any other single force I can think of in the world.” When asked what an alternative would be he suggested “the religion of rock and roll.”

Still surprised? You can see why rock has had such a devastating effect on America and the entire civilised world.”

That’s right people. Lock up your children. The religion of rock and roll is coming to get them. And for those of you who think this is just scaremongering. Think again. Here are the three things that change when somebody joins a religion (or cult) according to Aranza:

  1. Their philosophy.
  2. Their talk, slang, words, and phrases.
  3. Their outward appearance (wear what others in the religion wear).

Here is what Aranza has to say about more of your favourite bands (and some you might not like)…

The Beatles

The Beatles are living legends. Their music brought with it a tidal wave of drugs, sex and the occult.

The Beatles PR guy, Derek Taylor (who might have been doing some PR at the time) convinced Aranza when he said:

“They’re completely anti-Christ. I mean, I am anti-Christ as well, but they’re so anti-Christ they shock me which isn’t an easy thing.”

Also George Harrison was a leading backer behind the movie “The Life of Brian” (which was a mockery of Christ).

The Bee Gees

A first look at the Bee Gees would leave the impression that they are quite wholesome, a look into their private lives would expose the unwholesome values that they have.

Robin Gibbs admits to a hobby or pornographic drawings and all three members of the group lace their comments with obscenities.

They also do drugs.


Eric Clapton

Eric has been given the title of the world’s greatest living guitarist. But he fell into a period of heroin addiction. He was finally treated with acupuncture for his addiction.
Alice Cooper

Vincent Furnier, a Mormon preacher’s son from Arizona received his stage name while playing with a Ouija board. The board spelled out Alice Cooper and promised him world fame if he would change his name to the name of that 17th century witch, Alice Cooper. He later claimed to be the reincarnation of that witch.

Summary of the next bit: He does bad stuff on stage.

“Albums include Billion Dollar Babies and Alice Cooper goes to Hell. All these hellish and sexual overtones that Alice uses don’t make it hard to believe that he is going to hell and taking many others there along with him.”

For those not in the know – Alice Cooper is now a “born again” Christian (and a Sarah Palin fan), one can only hope Aranza was man enough to write him an apology. Cooper said this about his faith:

“It’s really easy to focus on Alice Cooper and not on Christ. I’m a rock singer. I’m nothing more than that. I’m not a philosopher. I consider myself low on the totem pole of knowledgeable Christians. So, don’t look for answers from me.”

…and later…

“Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy. But being a Christian, that’s a tough call. That’s real rebellion!”

Yeah. Rock on Alice.

Tomorrow: Why Olivia Newton John is evil.

How to not bring up bitter ministry children

Mikey has posted helpfully on work and rest in ministry recently (while Al posted on play, generally). Mikey’s “ministry as lifestyle” framework is pretty on the money I reckon. But someone in this picture has to think of the children (he did respond (as did his wife) in the comments on that post with some wisdom).

I like claiming to be an expert on things based on my own personal experience. I’m not claiming to be unique here, just claiming that I have a possibly relevant insight as the “son of a preacher man” – if I can’t reach you, then what hope do you have? My dad is a minister at a fairly successful church, he would also somewhat unfairly be described as a (possibly reforming) workaholic. Both he, and my mum, invested their time pretty heavily into their ministry. It’s taken quite a few years for them to appear comfortable taking holidays (and now they can’t get enough of them – they’re currently blogging their way through Europe). I am not bitter, though I can’t speak for my sibblings, in fact I’m in the process of entering the family business… So if you’re in ministry and you’re asking “how do I get my kids to grow up not hating me for making sacrifices for ministry” then this might be a post for you. I don’t want to endorse everything my folks did, nor paint them as perfect parents the nature of raising a headstrong lad like myself meant there were plenty of “interesting” moments. But here are some things they did that I think were helpful (and some things I would change).

  1. Make sure your children know the eternal importance of the Gospel – this is a bit of a given, but it will help them to understand why you (possibly) gave up a much more exciting and lucrative career in order to tell people about Jesus. Frame it as a job of eternal significance. As a little kid there’s nothing cooler than thinking your parents are doing something as cool as the guy whose dad is a fireman or rocket scientist.
  2. Read the Bible together – I’m pretty sure mum and dad test drove some of their Sunday School material on us (including, if I remember our little Bible/craft folders they made for us – the Bible in Ten Easy Lessons/King, the snake, and the promise).  You want your children on board (especially as kids) and other kids will inevitably ask them hard questions running around after church.
  3. Everybody is looking at your family as standard bearers. Everything from the clothes they wear, the shows they watch on TV to how much they know is an area of comparison. And they’re fully aware that this is happening. Other kids tell them. It was my fault that my friends couldn’t watch the Bill, and I was used as a justification in another friend’s campaign to watch the Simpsons. Make it clear to your children that you don’t judge them like other people do, and discourage this paradigm.
  4. Involve your children in your ministry – ask them for feedback, listen, take their ideas on board – two of my proudest moments as a child are suggesting a lolly jar in church, and spotting something significant (a comparison between Psalm 23 and the feeding of the 5,000) that dad used in a sermon (with attribution). Developing some sort of sense of involvement (though a balance) is useful.
  5. Try not to talk about them too much – either in the context of your parenting, or in illustrations where they look silly. For a long time if you googled my name the top result was the text of one of dad’s sermons that said “Nathan Campbell has lost his shoes“…
  6. Make sure your children understand pastoral sensitivity – if you practice hospitality it’s likely your kids will overhear stuff they shouldn’t (especially in a small house with thin walls), or be involved in awkward moments. Don’t leave these unexplained – and make confidentiality a big deal.
  7. Encourage your children to get involved with their own ministries as they get older, let them know that this makes you proud. Don’t ever take their participation in church stuff for granted. Encourage them to participate as members and as leaders, and let them know that you like that they do.
  8. Be available – while your children will no doubt want to take advantage of your presence (probably for games of table tennis) take advantage of the fact that you work from home and recognise that your flexible hours free you up to say yes to doing some fun stuff during the day. Particularly do things that allow for conversation. Talk about theology stuff, answer questions, that sort of thing. This is one of the greatest privileges of being a preacher’s kid – you’ve got your minister on tap.
  9. Give your children access to visiting speakers who are staying with you – access to your own father is a plus, but access to a network of incredibly gifted guest speakers for your own post-event question time is without doubt one of the things I’ve appreciated most. I’ve shared a room with Chappo. I’ve picked the brains of guys like Mike Raiter, David Cook, and dad’s contemporaries, and once I played a game of table tennis with Leigh Trevaskis.
  10. Try not to make sacrifices on your children’s behalf in every area – One of the things I am the most bitter about is how frugal some decisions my parents made were (they once bought me brown shoes and black shoe paint for school – saving $5 on a pair of black shoes and forcing me to paint them fortnightly). For a long time, I attributed this to the terrible pay ministers get, in hindsight we probably sacrificed in some areas so that we could do extra-curricular stuff like sport and music… which has turned out to be pretty valuable.

On the whole I reckon mum and dad maintained a pretty good balance, we always had food on the table and the assurance of their love. In less lucid and more emotive moments I probably felt a bit ripped off by how much time (and other stuff) their ministry took away from me. But the more I understand point 1 the easier that is to forgive. It’s easy (as a kid) to watch how much time your parents are spending solving other people’s problems and how little they’re spending on yours. So I think it’s pretty important (as a parent) to know what’s going on for your kids and remember that they’re members of both your church and your family.

A word paints a thousand words

I found a new blog yesterday. Technology is a wonderful thing. Luke is another Taswegian. He mentioned one of my posts on Twitter (creating a trackback) and I found his blog, Post-Apocalyptic Theology.

It looks good. Taswegians make good blogs. There are some interesting posts there to mull over.

I like this one in which he asks:

“I wonder what are the smallest/standard units of communication in our culture and what are smallest/standard units the bible intends us to begin with, use and apply?”

In response to this post, which argues that we should never read a verse in isolation…

“I use this simple rule to help me answer the majority of Bible questions I’m asked, even when I’m totally unfamiliar with the verse. It’s an amazingly effective technique you can use, too.

I read the paragraph, not just the verse. I take stock of the relevant material above and below. Since the context frames the verse and gives it specific meaning, I let it tell me what’s going on.

This works because of a basic rule of all communication: Meaning always flows from the top down, from the larger units to the smaller units, not the other way around. The key to the meaning of any verse comes from the paragraph, not just from the individual words.

I posted this response to his question…

I reckon individual words are the base both culturally and theologically. But only because there are certain “heavy” words that are capable of carrying huge amounts of meaning. One word can summarise a thousand words… like calling God “father”.

Plus I’m on his blogroll – so that’s cool. Am I on yours without knowing it? Tell me people. Affirm me…

How to write a bad worship song

You may have already seen this – but I thought it relevant as we’re currently discussing why you shouldn’t listen to rock’n’roll. If you want to provide something more wholesome you should follow this advice – how to write an awful worship song

One of my favourites:


Be Vague About Your Theology

Make sure to avoid any theology at all costs. Don’t talk about atonement, wrath, or any other biblical concepts. You want your song to be all about feeling. Don’t let the mind get in the way. Repeat after me: “Worship is a warm feeling, sort of like heartburn, only better.”

Backward Masking Unmasked – Part Two – How to spot rebellion (and not be rebellious)

Of all the bands Aranza doesn’t like – the Eagles are on top of the pile. They get a whole chapter. Here’s why you should be worried (if you’re an Eagles fan).

Hotel California

The only line in parenthesis is “(such a lovely face)” – on the inside cover of the album there’s a photo with a face in the window. If you squint he looks like the black pope (the Satanic pope) Anton Zandor LeVay. “Is this an accident? Hardly”… the lyrics also say “we haven’t had that spirit since 1969” – the year the Satanic Bible was published… and the spirit in the song was wine, which is of course the “Holy Spirit”… convinced? No. Well, if you play the song backwards you apparently hear “yes, Satan organised his own religion” – if you squint with your ears…

The Seven signs of Rebellion

  1. Rebels never do all of what they’re told to do.
  2. They’re never completely honest with themselves or others.
  3. They are blameshifters, always placing the blame on others and not themselves.
  4. They will give up wrongs but not their rights. As with Saul they will giev up the bad and keep what they feel is good.
  5. They are always questioning the authority of others, “who are you to tell me what is right or wrong?” As with Saul who denied Samuel’s accusation.
  6. They are very prideful, thinking highly about themselves, Saul was like that.
  7. They are very stubborn with the “I’m right and you’re wrong” attitude, instead of being hmble and examining the facts to see if they be true.

The Six Steps of Rebellion

Jacob Aranza isn’t a man who offers problems without solutions. When he spoke in Texas, on what was to be a one week engagement, he ended up staying for three weeks and holding record burnings. He wants you not to be a rebellious youth. Here are the six steps of rebellion. If you find yourself identifying with the list above already, or spotting any of this list in your life – you need help.

  1. Disobedience
  2. Self-Deceit (not honest with yourself)
  3. Stubbornness
  4. Looking for idols
  5. Witchcraft and the occult
  6. Death

“If you see any of these steps in your life, or in the lives of those around you it’s not too late to stop the pattern. You don’t have to live the life of a rock and roll rebel.”

Here’s how to assess your favourite (secular) rock group.

1. Do they glorify God?
2. Are they building God’s Kingdom, or destroying it?
3. Can you see Jesus is Lord in their lives?
4. Are they serving themselves or the living God?

He says “unfortunately Christian artists are suffering financially because Christians are supporting non-Christian artists… There are no good reasons why Christian young people can not hear good quality music about the Rock that never rolls… Jesus.”

And now, some stuff about your bands…

Black Sabbath

With a name like Black Sabbath you could only expect them to be what they are. They were introduced to the British press by a party featuring the mock sword sacrifice of a semi-nude girl. They were known to hold masses before some of their concerts. Their first album, Black Sabbath pictured a witch on the front.

A few days ago I was watching Black Sabbath in concert on television. In the middle of the concert the lead singer of the band began to make a satanic salute. It is made by extending the little finger and index finger. He yelled to the crowd and in response they also made the sign. Then he looked at the sign he was making with his hand and said “some people think they know what this means, but we know what this really means. It means long live rock and roll.”


Judas Priest

This English group’s promotional material says that their new album Sin After Sin is selling sin, or has sin for sale.

“Judas Priest, a new group from the industrial heartland of England is selling sin on their new album. Their new album is called Sin After Sin, but don’t worry you will still be saved,” the promotional piece says.

Of course the message of the album is that a person can live the way he wants and still get by with it, still be saved.

John Denver

The album Rocky Mountain High talks of a born-again experience by a man born in his 27th year. In a Newsweek interview, Denver said, “As a self-appointed Messiah, I view music as far more than just entertainment.”
He sees it as a tool to promote the gospel of a new secular religion. The leaders of this religion claim to control the universe and “claim to be gods” (Newsweek, December 20, 1976).
In another song he says, “Apollo is the major deity of the sun, light, music and art” (Symbols, Signs and Their meanings, A. Whittich, 1960, p. 190).
People magazine interviewd Denver and revealed that he has tried Rofling, Aikido, EST, Pyramid Power and other mystical religions, yet still feels fragmented (People, December 8, 1980, p/ 65).

How to talk to atheists about Christianity

So today I presented the thing about how to talk to atheists I mentioned a while back. Here are my notes. You’ll probably recognise them if you’ve been reading for a while. This was a great way to justify all the hours I’ve spent in seemingly fruitless debate in the last 18 months.

Things not to say

  1. Don’t present as an expert on scientific thought – unless you are.
  2. Don’t use words that carry baggage. Good in the Bible is a theological category, not a moral category. Don’t conflate them.
  3. Don’t say atheists are incapable of being good without God, or suggest they’re naturally immoral. Be prepared to ask how they make moral decisions – but don’t assert that they’re unable to – remember common grace.
  4. Don’t go down the “look at all the evil atheists” path unless you want to go down the “explain the Crusades” path.
  5. Don’t say “those people aren’t real Christians” unless you’re familiar with the “no true Scotsman” fallacy and you’re prepared to demonstrate how they are not in fact Christians (and can speak with authority about their state before God).
  6. Don’t suggest that Christian principles should form the backbone of law because the majority of people identify as Christians. Invert this thinking, and put yourself in the minority – we can’t expect everybody to live as though they have the Holy Spirit, nor should we be expecting the state to govern as though we’re a Christian nation.
  7. Don’t quote Bible verses out of context.
  8. Don’t say “there are no atheists in the foxholes”, “atheism is a faith”, or “you only don’t believe to justify your immorality” – these are all clichéd and the atheists think they’ve been “debunked” . Avoid Pascal’s wager too (as valid as it may be).
  9. Try to avoid generalisations – all atheists don’t think the same. There is no atheist “bible” or code they have to sign up to.

Here’s a list of things they say not to say (or do)…

This is not necessarily a list of things not to do, just a list of things atheists have said that they find annoying (from commenters on a site called the Friendly Atheist):

  • Bait-and-switch: Where they become your “friend,” but really, they just want to convert you
  • Not speaking out against other Christians who do really crazy things
  • Assume that everyone who isn’t a Christian is “lost” or needs “saving”
  • Giving credit to god for every good thing that happens, and accepting every bad thing as part of his “plan”.
  • Sneaking their beliefs into supposedly neutral conversations; using neutral platforms to espouse their religion (like facebook, et al.)
  • Automatically “assume” that everyone shares their beliefs
  • “You’re an atheist because you want to do immoral things. You know god exists really.”
  • Assuming that everyone who doesn’t believe is ignorant of the Bible, or of popular interpretations of the Bible.
  • Asserting that Christianity is not a religion because religions aren’t real or using some other silly criteria
  • Cherry picking the bible.
  • Not admitting that their god is immoral.
  • I’m also bugged by the ones who apparently care more about the soul of the person than the person.
  • When they acknowledge that “religion is bad” but then claim that True Christianity is not a “religion” is very annoying as well
  • Attempting to force their views on you, either by preaching or by codifying their belief system into law.
  • Latching on to your problems in order to try to convert you.
  • Affirming that people who didn’t believe in god in life are now in hell, even the relatives or loved ones of the person they’re talking to “My grandmother was an atheist, is she in hell?” “Yes”. This is beyond enraging, and it makes it even worse when the person saying it refuses to acknowledge how callous and cruel their words are, and how there’s nothing “loving” about them.
  • Quoting bible verses at you in lieu of actual debate or discussion, as though you accept their inerrance as much as they do.
  • They fail to see that the separation of church and state protects their freedom to worship as they choose. They naively assume that a mixture of religion and government would be a benign version of their particular sub set of their religion, instead of the insane tyranny in Europe that the founding fathers vividly remembered.

Things to say

  1. Stick with Jesus – most atheists accept that he lived and taught good stuff (some don’t) – keeping the question grounded in the historical reality of the resurrection – or that claim – is much better than talking about whether the resurrection is scientifically plausible. Atheists want physical evidence – Jesus is the point at which physical evidence was historically provided (see his interaction with Thomas in John 20). That’s the nexus of atheistic thought and gospel proclamation.

    When Mark Driscoll, in a column in a Washington Paper, was asked what the best case for Christianity was for skeptics this was his answer:

    Christianity is not first and foremost about a sacred place to pilgrimage to, a philosophical system to ponder, a moral code to live, a religious tradition to honor, or an impersonal god to experience. Rather, Christianity is about a person who claimed to be the only God and said he would prove his unprecedented claim by living without sin, dying for sinners, and conquering death through resurrection.

  2. Acknowledge that in many cases they have many points that some of us sometimes forget – it is likely that you’re a Christian because your parents are – but that says nothing about the truth or otherwise of Christianity. Science is a good way to understand the world around us – in fact it’s a good way to understand how God does things. Christians have done terrible, unloving things to people – including each other – because of their faith…
  3. Acknowledge that many atheists have actually thought through the question of faith, or come from a position of faith, to reach their own conclusion. There is still some social stigma attached to being an atheist, it’s not a position you default into.
  4. Explain your rationale for believing what you believe, positively – atheist propaganda suggests that atheism is the point at which all thinking, questioning people inevitably arrive at. Tell your story, show your workings, acknowledge your doubts.
  5. Acknowledge that there are important areas where atheists and Christians can agree – separation of church and state is big for them, freedom of speech, most religious and spiritual beliefs are silly (we reject all divine claims but one), relativism is dumb – we can’t all be right.

Things to do…

  1. Read the material – be familiar with the arguments Dawkins, Dennet, Harris, and Hitchens are equipping a generation of atheists with. Read atheist blogs. PZ Myers and the Friendly Atheist are a good sounding board for atheistic thought.
  2. Familiarise yourself with logic and argument – know what a straw man argument is, recognise ad hominem, know what the “no true Scotsman” fallacy is, understand circular reasoning (eg the Bible is true because it says it is true) and why atheists see it as a problem…
  3. Read the Christian responses to these writers. Know the critiques. Especially John Lennox, Alistair McGrath (EDIT: 2015, and most especially David Bentley Hart).
  4. Ask honest questions. They can be honest questions with an agenda – but be convinced that evangelism is God’s work and just try to ask questions about why they think what they think. What are their assumptions about the world?
  5. Treat one another with respect. You don’t fundamentally have to agree with somebody to love them. People are more likely to listen to what you have to say if you don’t resort to name calling.
  6. Realise that at some point you actually have to fundamentally disagree. Sometimes what you say will be offensive to them. The atonement is offensive, God’s judgment is offensive, our claim to be in a relationship with the creator of the universe is offensive. If you want atheists to like what you have to say – and still be atheists – you pretty much have to get rid of the gospel. They love “liberal” Christianity – many like Spong and his ilk, and those who are doing their best to liberate Christianity, particularly from ‘oppressive’ views of sexuality.